[dom]

Lloyds have took over 11% of Murray.International.Holdings they now have people within Ibrox and within MIH to keep an eye on what is going on.

DAVID MURRAY was removed from financial control he is no longer allowed to negotiate loans or deals of any sort involving MIH

MIH is in debt to Lloyds for the tune of 750million

Lloyds could be forced to accept writedowns of near 300 million of the loans secured against Ibrox MIH and steel inventory Lloyds own debts however could force them to keep MIH rangers and steel inventory afloat in the hope that the economy will lift...with an interest of 55 million on the debts its hard to see how long they can afford to keep them afloat with the price of steel in freefall. (nearly half what it was in 2008) accepting a write down of 300 million would put lloyds into financial trouble and could spark another banking crisis....well done Mr Murray.

Rangers fans can mump and moan about boycotts and burning cheque books of lloyds the fact of the matter is Lloyds are in trouble themselves and MIH are in debt to Lloyds and as long as MIH own rangers they are not going to drop 40p off the £1 of the 31 million Rangers owe when Lloyds themselves are neck deep in the shit...as it stands MIH owe 750 million and as a parent to glasgow rangers it basically is rangers debt aswell until they find a buyer

the plan Lloyds have for rangers is strip down every cost possible sell as much as possible and keep the fans coming through the door to service MIH's debt...this is why the 18 million bid got rejected. this is why smith mccoist and mcdowell are now working without contracts (they were to be removed and replaced anyway the no wages suits lloyds better so they were allowed to stay) this is why boyd has not been given a new contract (the he was injured comment was a belter) rangers will be taken down to a skeleton core and then sold eventually, basically the same thing that was done at leeds united..rangers will have a starting 1st team squad of 14 players next season they have 20 roughly now 6 names are gone in the summer all top earners. when staff at a club start working without pay it is a moment for worry if this arrangement moves onto the players that is when the problems really begin.

the problem rangers face now is trying to find a buyer for a club who are the occasional disgrace in europe (manchester being the pinnacle of this) its hardly and appealing purchase for 31 million no matter how you say it...being a rangers fan helps but even still 31 million for an executive toy in the middle of the worst credit crunch in years is not the best idea in the planet and even the most hardened blue nose will know its not a wise investment.

the main man at ibrox has been mugging rangers fans for nearly 4 years now all profit from ibrox has been paying off MIH'S debt players sales shirt sales pie stall money season book money he even rents murray park to rangers which the fans pay for and yes this also go's to MIH's debt...nearly every single coin...the concept that rangers winning the league and getting 10 mill wiped from their debt is nonsense this money will go straight into the MIH debt.
MIH debt was nearer 769 million last year its down to 750 million through profits from the sale of rangers players and champions league revenue and season book sales..if you believe this is nonsense count up the players out champ league money season books and ask where the money has went...rangers debt has went down but nowhere near the amount of income they have had in the last 4 years.


this is the cold hard fact facing rangers fans...the only thing that is holding them from financial collapse is the debt they are in. ironic or what

for every fiver they spend we will spend a tenner...priceless.

[Hamshank Redemption]

I'll read that tonight before i turn in. Thank's for keeping us informed.

[dom]

Hamshank Redemption, on 07 February 2010 - 01:09 PM, said:

I'll read that tonight before i turn in. Thank's for keeping us informed.

no bother...you just keep on thinking it isnt happening...what was the last thing you bought for from Rangers???

This post has been edited by dom: 07 February 2010 - 01:26 PM

[dom]

double post !!

This post has been edited by dom: 07 February 2010 - 01:18 PM

[Crank]

dom, on 07 February 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

double post !!

Double the pish eh ? Sore watching that first half ?

Do the Rangers fans need another idiot of a Sellick fan to 'enlighten' them of how much a prick their ex-chairman is ? Lloyds/TSB/HBoS are as much a bunch of arseholes as a man whose companies they need to keep afloat to redeem themselves. This is a blight on the biggest club in Scotland and just shows football authorities should be far more pro-active in protecting the sporting institutions under their remit !

Point scoring, when a club is the victim of an egomaniac just show you up for the weasel you are son ! Did you watch the dross just served up by your dreadfully poor team today ? A scoreline that frankly flatters to deceive. The second for Celtic was offside too. You should be more concern as to why, after spending more money on transfers and wages that a current Rangers could only dream of your team are still miles behind and employ a defence who couldn't stem the flow of a brick wall.

This post has been edited by Crank: 07 February 2010 - 02:16 PM

[No8.]

dom, on 07 February 2010 - 11:57 AM, said:

Lloyds have took over 11% of Murray.International.Holdings they now have people within Ibrox and within MIH to keep an eye on what is going on.

DAVID MURRAY was removed from financial control he is no longer allowed to negotiate loans or deals of any sort involving MIH

MIH is in debt to Lloyds for the tune of 750million

Lloyds could be forced to accept writedowns of near 300 million of the loans secured against Ibrox MIH and steel inventory Lloyds own debts however could force them to keep MIH rangers and steel inventory afloat in the hope that the economy will lift...with an interest of 55 million on the debts its hard to see how long they can afford to keep them afloat with the price of steel in freefall. (nearly half what it was in 2008) accepting a write down of 300 million would put lloyds into financial trouble and could spark another banking crisis....well done Mr Murray.

Rangers fans can mump and moan about boycotts and burning cheque books of lloyds the fact of the matter is Lloyds are in trouble themselves and MIH are in debt to Lloyds and as long as MIH own rangers they are not going to drop 40p off the £1 of the 31 million Rangers owe when Lloyds themselves are neck deep in the shit...as it stands MIH owe 750 million and as a parent to glasgow rangers it basically is rangers debt aswell until they find a buyer

the plan Lloyds have for rangers is strip down every cost possible sell as much as possible and keep the fans coming through the door to service MIH's debt...this is why the 18 million bid got rejected. this is why smith mccoist and mcdowell are now working without contracts (they were to be removed and replaced anyway the no wages suits lloyds better so they were allowed to stay) this is why boyd has not been given a new contract (the he was injured comment was a belter) rangers will be taken down to a skeleton core and then sold eventually, basically the same thing that was done at leeds united..rangers will have a starting 1st team squad of 14 players next season they have 20 roughly now 6 names are gone in the summer all top earners. when staff at a club start working without pay it is a moment for worry if this arrangement moves onto the players that is when the problems really begin.

the problem rangers face now is trying to find a buyer for a club who are the occasional disgrace in europe (manchester being the pinnacle of this) its hardly and appealing purchase for 31 million no matter how you say it...being a rangers fan helps but even still 31 million for an executive toy in the middle of the worst credit crunch in years is not the best idea in the planet and even the most hardened blue nose will know its not a wise investment.

the main man at ibrox has been mugging rangers fans for nearly 4 years now all profit from ibrox has been paying off MIH'S debt players sales shirt sales pie stall money season book money he even rents murray park to rangers which the fans pay for and yes this also go's to MIH's debt...nearly every single coin...the concept that rangers winning the league and getting 10 mill wiped from their debt is nonsense this money will go straight into the MIH debt.
MIH debt was nearer 769 million last year its down to 750 million through profits from the sale of rangers players and champions league revenue and season book sales..if you believe this is nonsense count up the players out champ league money season books and ask where the money has went...rangers debt has went down but nowhere near the amount of income they have had in the last 4 years.


this is the cold hard fact facing rangers fans...the only thing that is holding them from financial collapse is the debt they are in. ironic or what

for every fiver they spend we will spend a tenner...priceless.

I was just about to delete the topic as there is not 1 shred of actual truth in it..The MIH debt is nothing new FFS.

Rangers don't need to sell anybody in the summer...Rangers have offered a very decent contract to Boyd..in fact it is more than what celtic were willing to offer to keep their club captain our poblem is there are teams in the EPL who are willing to offer far in excess of what we can.

You really are a fucking nugget if you think McCoist,McDowell and Smith are working for no wages!! They don't have contracts but are on the same salary as they were before...you do realise their is a huge difference.

You obviously have no idea about the finances at Ibrox..Rangers have an agreement with the bank to pay back the debt at a level we can easily afford...in fact Pedro Mendes and Jerome Rothen wages alone would easily cover it daftie

If you are going to copy and paste utter garbage like this please read it through and be able to understand it. It is not exactly on a par with your Charlie Mulgrew fuck up but is pretty poor.

I will leave it up for now so others such as Hammy can have a good laugh at your expense

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

You mean you were about to delete because it doesn't suit more like. Double standards?

Anyway i don't think anyone can post truths about money troubles at Rangers other than say they are in trouble, to stick the head in the sand and say Mendes and Rothen going will fix it is absurd.

[No8.]

Fat Bhoy Tim, on 08 February 2010 - 10:26 AM, said:

You mean you were about to delete because it doesn't suit more like. Double standards?

Anyway i don't think anyone can post truths about money troubles at Rangers other than say they are in trouble, to stick the head in the sand and say Mendes and Rothen going will fix it is absurd.

I expect utter drivel from the others but you are old enough to know better...Rangers have an agreement in place which is publicly available that states Rangers will pay back the debt at £1 million a year...That is a minimum payment agreement...Rothen was on £18,000 a week from Rangers and Mendes was on upwards of £25,000 a week...You do the maths.

A wee bit of advice..If you don't have a fucking clue what you are talkig about it is better to say nothing at all!

As for double standards...I thought about deleting it as there is simply no truth in any of it. It is garbage from start to finish and to think he actually thought that worthy of Copy and pasting makes it even more incredible

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

No8., on 08 February 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

I expect utter drivel from the others but you are old enough to know better...Rangers have an agreement in place which is publicly available that states Rangers will pay back the debt at £1 million a year...That is a minimum payment agreement...Rothen was on £18,000 a week from Rangers and Mendes was on upwards of £25,000 a week...You do the maths.

A wee bit of advice..If you don't have a fucking clue what you are talkig about it is better to say nothing at all!

As for double standards...I thought about deleting it as there is simply no truth in any of it. It is garbage from start to finish and to think he actually thought that worthy of Copy and pasting makes it even more incredible

It probably had as much relevance as Robbie Keane's wages thread

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Should have added that paying a £30m debt at £1m a year will only keep people happy for a short time. You know as well as anyone Rangers are in big trouble where money is concerned and it will not change unless a buyer is found and that looks unlikely just now. Rangers are not an attractive proposition financially for anyone. Anyone buying Rangers today would have to pay more than the club is worth and unless buyers are prepared to write off tens of millions then it won't happen. There ain't many sugar daddies out there looking to invest in Scottish football.

That is the reality for Rangers

[No8.]

The £1 million agreement is a Minimum payment and was what i was refering to when i mentioned the Rothen/Mendes wages. It was talked about as '25 mortgage type' agreement. It was all over the press/news at the time...TBH i pay little attention to your financial plight so i am not surprised you might have missed it.

Rangers will be fine in the short term...Rangers will not be forced to sell any players as their debt is seperate from the MIH debt..another fact that was made public by the bank who are not allowed in law to mislead people in the Market place

You can believe everything you hear from bank personnel.

As for the Robbie Keane wages thread...IT WAS A JOKE !!!!

[Fergus]

No8., on 08 February 2010 - 11:09 AM, said:

A wee bit of advice..If you don't have a fucking clue what you are talkig about it is better to say nothing at all!

So you won't be posting ever again..that's good news.

Rangers are financially fucked. When is this mass protest of people canceling having their income support and giro's payed into Lloyds TSB happening anyway..?

Any plans for another 34 man MASS protest?

[dom]

Crank, on 07 February 2010 - 02:15 PM, said:

Point scoring, when a club is the victim of an egomaniac just show you up for the weasel you are son !

I liked this reply it made me laugh ....if we were in this ehhh pickle im sure rangers fans would be the better people and not laugh about it :post-71-1169825276:

fact of the matter is donald muir is on commission to recoup as much as he can from rangers before the big sell off he has no loyalty to your club to your fans to your feelings as people he is there for one thing MONEY and lots of it the more he gets back the more he makes. rangers will not be sold until lloyds decide to allow the sale..by that time im sure you will be no more than a skeleton side.

NO8 your saying there isnt a shred of truth in this bury your head if you wish...you now have 6 players heading out of contract and out the door. steven smith novo broadfoot fleck and young wilson and lets not forget boyd who was offered 18k a week ???? 4 of these guys are rangers supporters and have rejected contracts??? dont make me laugh they havent received contract offers because rangers are not allowed to offer them, yes they are worth more sold but lloyds wont take the risk of offering the contracts only for them to refuse to move its catch 22 yes but cost cutting is paramount so off they go for free. bougherra is about to leave in the summer along with mcgregor there will be more..its sore i know but hey what can you do....you cant even hold onto your best reserve team players but lets not panic...

if this is bullshit why the fuck is a lloyds man sitting on your board??? he isnt there for a laugh..he is there for 1 reason and that reason is debt recovery hundreds of football teams are in debt how many have a lloyds banker sitting on their board??? answer 1 who?? rangers why??? see above.

so please delete away... i care not a bit..i do know this it couldnt be happening to better people and a better team

karma aint it a bitch.

[dom]

No8., on 08 February 2010 - 06:31 PM, said:

As for the Robbie Keane wages thread...IT WAS A JOKE !!!!

ahhh is that what it was....funny that...im sure you will find this thread of the same humour...before you delete it to put your head in the sand

[No8.]

dom, on 09 February 2010 - 06:21 AM, said:

NO8 your saying there isnt a shred of truth in this bury your head if you wish...you now have 6 players heading out of contract and out the door. steven smith novo broadfoot fleck and young wilson and lets not forget boyd who was offered 18k a week ???? 4 of these guys are rangers supporters and have rejected contracts??? dont make me laugh they havent received contract offers because rangers are not allowed to offer them, yes they are worth more sold but lloyds wont take the risk of offering the contracts only for them to refuse to move its catch 22 yes but cost cutting is paramount so off they go for free.

Just take this nonsense for now just to show how little you know.

Fleck and Wilson both have 18 months on their contracts to run..Both have turned down contracts offered by Rangers in the last 6 weeks although they are still both in on going talks.

Boyd has an offer from Rangers worth more than celtic were willing to offer their club captain..he also has other contract offers from clubs south of the border.

Novo and Broadfoot are on relatively small contracts and there is no problem there.

Steven Smith is a bit part player and if he signs he signs and if he doesn't well.....

As for the '4 Rangers supporters out of the 6'...Who? Fleck , Boyd and Broadfoot are Rangers...who is the 4th? Novo?

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Wilson? I dunno and don't really care, twice you have mentioned about Boyds package in comparison to our captains offer but I'm unaware we offered anything to Mcmanus, care to enlighten us to your source of wisdom here?

[No8.]

Fat Bhoy Tim, on 09 February 2010 - 05:37 PM, said:

Wilson? I dunno and don't really care, twice you have mentioned about Boyds package in comparison to our captains offer but I'm unaware we offered anything to Mcmanus, care to enlighten us to your source of wisdom here?

McManus has 18 months of his contract remaining...He has gone on loan in the obvious hope that Mopery is sacked in the summer and he will return to favour under the new regime.

Your Club captain was Gary Caldwell who wasn't offered anything near the £18,000 Boyd has been...As for source.. Almost every newspaper report prior to his move away.

I had a laugh when i read Stevie Smith today talking about the contract offer Rangers had made him but he had refused.

Is there anything you lot have got right recently :0 The lack of even basic football knowledge amongst the celtic supporters is worrying to say the least.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Now that i've had a chance to digest this on a big screen rather let me highlight these inaccuracies that No8 wanted to delete and show them as fact.

MIH are Rangers parent company, MIH are over £750m in debt and it's growing, Rangers are over £30m in debt and it's growing

These figures can be confirmed anywhere if people want to check published accounts. Rangers figs are easy to find MIH are a bit more difficult but a search will get them.

There are numerous cost cutting measures in place to aid Rangers reduce their debt as there are at MIH this is the main reason DM stood down as chairman to enable him to focus more on his core business, Rangers are small fry in comparison. The Rangers management team are working without contracts which is different to no wages all it means in reality is the can leave or be sacked without notice or compensation and are working on existing salaries with no pay increase. They are paid well so this will generally be no issue to them.

Rangers have offered contracts to Boyd and the others who currently have not signed them, these players hold the aces here and i believe they are hedging their bets as to what will happen to the club come the summer, make no bones about it Rangers are in big trouble, without a new buyer and untill they get one (if they get one)then nothing changes, they owe vast amounts of cash, cash which is over 70% of their last published annual turnover, fans shouldn't be demonstrating against Lloyds who are afterall trying to get back what is rightfully theirs, Lloyds will not walk away from nor cut the debt. If they want to demonstrate they should stand outside DM's office in Edinburgh and give it to him big time for years of mismanagement and poor signing policies.

On the debt management there is no mention even in the accounts as to how they pay the debt of so im interested as to where No8 gets his £1m a year figure and if he has the right info then maybe post a link. Even a google search fails to find anything so if it's that easy then please do show us.

Lets discect the figures on Rangers last accounts.

Turnover way down mainly due to a reduction in home games from the year prior because of an early European exit however they generate 2 etra home games in the CL as a result so you would think more generated income which could aid the debt recovery.

They received a £14m downpayment from JJB for retail rights, seems a good thing eh, this year they will get £3m an £11m deficit which payed for Bougherra, Davis, Edu etc so all break even, except for wages i suppose. Must be worth a few million there.

Rangers generated around £11m in sales for Cuellar and Cousin but no sales this year but hold on CL money, should cancel each other out.

This year every club has lost income from TV from Setanta's collapse, not good eh, more money lost on year previous.

Fixed assets of the team are arguably less, who would generate big money from sales? McGregor? Bougherra? Davis? Probably the 3 biggest assets just now, Boyd is not worth a jot now unless he signs a new deal. Who else could the sell for over £1 or £2m? Not many if any, Whittaker, Papac, Miller, Broadfoot, McCulloch, Naismith. Doesnt leave much of a first team does it, not that the bank will enforce this, would they?

What is Rangers worst scenario? They implode majorly and lose the league therefor no CL money coupled with no buyer and a bank who's feet get increasingly itchy. Where does that leave them in the summer? I'll let you bears work on that one.

Now i wouldn't expect a deleted post of accurate figures and a personal opinion afterwards, but you never know. ;)

This post has been edited by Fat Bhoy Tim: 09 February 2010 - 07:36 PM

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Looks like i've found something.

"In fact, as set out in our financial statements at June 30 the bank has agreed that the Club's only obligation is to operate within a credit facility that reduces by £1 million per year"

Yip, an agreement, it will remain to be seen if they can do it though ;)

[No8.]

Fat Bhoy Tim, on 09 February 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

Now that i've had a chance to digest this on a big screen rather let me highlight these inaccuracies that No8 wanted to delete and show them as fact.

MIH are Rangers parent company, MIH are over £750m in debt and it's growing, Rangers are over £30m in debt and it's growing

These figures can be confirmed anywhere if people want to check published accounts. Rangers figs are easy to find MIH are a bit more difficult but a search will get them.

Rangers have offered contracts to Boyd and the others who currently have not signed them, these players hold the aces here and i believe they are hedging their bets as to what will happen to the club come the summer, make no bones about it Rangers are in big trouble, without a new buyer and untill they get one (if they get one)then nothing changes, they owe vast amounts of cash, cash which is over 70% of their last published annual turnover, fans shouldn't be demonstrating against Lloyds who are afterall trying to get back what is rightfully theirs, Lloyds will not walk away from nor cut the debt. If they want to demonstrate they should stand outside DM's office in Edinburgh and give it to him big time for years of mismanagement and poor signing policies.

Lets discect the figures on Rangers last accounts.

Turnover way down mainly due to a reduction in home games from the year prior because of an early European exit however they generate 2 etra home games in the CL as a result so you would think more generated income which could aid the debt recovery.

They received a £14m downpayment from JJB for retail rights, seems a good thing eh, this year they will get £3m an £11m deficit which payed for Bougherra, Davis, Edu etc so all break even, except for wages i suppose. Must be worth a few million there.

Rangers generated around £11m in sales for Cuellar and Cousin but no sales this year but hold on CL money, should cancel each other out.

This year every club has lost income from TV from Setanta's collapse, not good eh, more money lost on year previous.

Fixed assets of the team are arguably less, who would generate big money from sales? McGregor? Bougherra? Davis? Probably the 3 biggest assets just now, Boyd is not worth a jot now unless he signs a new deal. Who else could the sell for over £1 or £2m? Not many if any, Whittaker, Papac, Miller, Broadfoot, McCulloch, Naismith. Doesnt leave much of a first team does it, not that the bank will enforce this, would they?

What is Rangers worst scenario? They implode majorly and lose the league therefor no CL money coupled with no buyer and a bank who's feet get increasingly itchy. Where does that leave them in the summer? I'll let you bears work on that one.

Rangers did sell Players this year...Ferguson,Adam and Mendes for a total of £3 million..there are probably 1 or 2 others.

Rangers debt has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the debt owed by the parent company as the bank are dealing with them seperately and have said so many many times...Celtic supporters fixation with the debt is rather worrying TBH.

Rangers have offered contracts to EVERY player who is out of contract in the summer..they have offered to double the wages of 3 current players

The Rangers do not need to sell any players to clear any debt as they are working within a budget set out by the board.

The No Contracts=No Wages nonsense just about sums up the misinformed celtic supporters here..Pathetic

At the other end of the city we have a club in absolute free fall...Soarng debt...falling crowds...a fall of over 70% in merchandise sales...No Champions League football for a 2nd successive season...soaring wage demands... selling of the 1st team including both club captains..leading goal scorer and best midfiled player..trailing miles behind the league leaders and struggling for 2nd place...tens of millions investment needed to try and keep apace of The Champions. Yet their support don't even realise all these facts as they are not Published in The Sun/ The Star/The Sport/The Daily Rhebel